Was ichigos first training allmoust huge disaster and what's uraharas role in it?

jack4s

i was looking trought some old chapters and found some interesting stuf that may be connected to futures chapters. To how much power have ichigos hollow compare to others vizards and meby how it come to that ichigo's hollow and vizard form. and what part does urahara have in whole story.

Urahara give him some strange pils?
Bleach 58 page 02 | One Manga

urahara himself tell abouth chain and how long it took to become hollow, so it was gas
Bleach 62 page 06 | One Manga

bakudo 99?
Bleach 61 page 16 | One Manga
Bleach 64 page 04 | One Manga (breaking bakudo 99, when it took out kensei?)
Bleach 64 page 06 | One Manga (how powerful must be ichigos hollow?)

same efect as shinji and others, but only in normal soul form
Bleach 62 page 24 | One Manga
Bleach -99 page 013 | One Manga

right order of things.
Bleach 63 page 02 | One Manga

what is shinigami and controle over power (meby even first stage of flash step?)
Bleach 63 page 08 | One Manga
Bleach 63 page 09 | One Manga

when can someone become shinigami: (under what circumstances can soul get shinigami powers)
Bleach 63 page 11 | One Manga

it looks that normal souls/weak shinigamis can't survive hollowfication, and prototype?
Bleach -104 page 02 | One Manga

powers of vizards:
Bleach -101 page 14 | One Manga (was stoped by weaker spell)
Bleach -101 page 17 | One Manga (bakudo 63 isn't enoght for kensei)
Bleach -100 page 10 | One Manga (but bakudo 99 was enoght for kensei, made by vice capitan)
-but ichigos hollow break bakudo 99 made by kidoe capitan without any problems.
-but vice capitan said that he allready overdone it by using bakudo 99,
-but they used the same bakudo on normal soul with some spiritual power
-so ichigos hollow must be real monster, probably vaste lord.
-for urahara to order soo high restriction spell for ichigo,
-then he must have knowen that he was trying to made vizard or something realy powerful and risky.

every went to allmoust worse case, but result was very similary in some ways to shinji and other's

what are your thoughts on those parts?

bigdaddy9247 · 06-21-2008

good thread.I think for the most part the steps Urahara took is the same Aizen took.
I think urahara just has a more scientific approach.
he used gas and pills in order to make the process easier but with greater effects. His mask formed just like the others formed , first.
Urahara said usually the soul explodes and then regroups into a hollow. But when only the mask forms first it is saying that u are resisting the hollow and struggling to keep ur Shinigami side.

rozarazan · 06-21-2008

an amazing find,i totally forgot about the pill thing,and the gas also,so just to be on the same page to start the discussion ,are you saying that urahara intended to make ichigo a vizard???

silenceisntgold2 · 06-21-2008

I believe he did it on purpose, but didn't want Ichigo to know that he did it, so that's why Ichigo didn't think he knew anything about it, which is why he didn't go to him to get trained for it.

rozarazan · 06-21-2008

actually i was one of the ppl who believed that what happened to ichigo was a mistake ,but after seeing these pages and remembered the pill and gas things,i'm not sure anymore ,and maybe urahara intended to make ichigo a vizard,but again maybe he wanted to use that method to a certain extend only to make ichigo a shinigami again but it went a bit out of hand and the method didn't stop at the point where urahara intended ,i mean urahara was the one who said it was my biggest miscalculation in the last chapter which indicates he reget what happened to the vizards and so i don't think he would try to make another vizard

Casey6 · 06-21-2008

First of all
Some damn good investigating you did - bravo to you.

I too forgot all about those pills. Could be what starts the process.

As far as the gas my question is - does that mean that Tessai is already a vizard? He was down there too, and he was not effected.

And you are sooo right, shinji and Ichigos hollowfication was in the same exact order.
The only difference I can see is that Shinji was already a shinigami and Ichigo was not.But the Hollowfication started the same way.

Also, do you know if Shinji and the others may have been getting stuff from Urahara when they were still in the Ss?

Rozarazn: I after this I do believe his intensions were to make Ichigo a vizard. He knew what Aizen had became or what he wanted to be. He knew they needed someone strong in order to help fight again Aizen and his gang. - I too believed it was a mistake, but after this I do believe he did it to make him a vizard.

rozarazan · 06-21-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Casey6

First of all
Some damn good investigating you did - bravo to you.

I too forgot all about those pills. Could be what starts the process.

As far as the gas my question is - does that mean that Tessai is already a vizard? He was down there too, and he was not effected.

And you are sooo right, shinji and Ichigos hollowfication was in the same exact order.
The only difference I can see is that Shinji was already a shinigami and Ichigo was not.But the Hollowfication started the same way.

Also, do you know if Shinji and the others may have been getting stuff from Urahara when they were still in the Ss?

Rozarazn: I after this I do believe his intensions were to make Ichigo a vizard. He knew what Aizen had became or what he wanted to be. He knew they needed someone strong in order to help fight again Aizen and his gang. - I too believed it was a mistake, but after this I do believe he did it to make him a vizard.

don't forget that the one who made shinji and the others hollowify was aizen and not urahara so here is what i think aizen way is more unstable but both ways (his and urahara's)leads to the similar result --->hollowification but urahara way melts the barrier in a stabilized and safe way,carefully studied steps .

Casey6 · 06-21-2008

Oh no I defently agree with you.

But we still don't know if Aizen stole the method from Urahara or he had created his on method, or if they worked together at the beginning and Aizen turned out to be not what Urahara thought- - - a respectable person - - - but turned out to be evil

I do agree that Urahara way is more safe (hopefully) and he did know what he was doing to Ichigo.

Crash8 · 06-21-2008

Yeah he must have know what would happen he always knows what would happen...

Casey6 · 06-21-2008

Does anyone think or feel that Urahara should have told Ichigo what was going on - or what was going to happen?

It is obvious Urahara knew what was happening to Ichigo, he had seen it years ago with his fellow captains and vc's. I think he knew that the inner hollow with start to slip out like it must've with the others.

What do y'all think?