Why They Defected (theory)

[Darth Kenshin]

(I made a new thread for this because the "Tousen and Gin" thread is mainly about their powers, not what they're actualy doing... plus, that was in the Discussion section, and this topic will probably end up drawing information from more recent manga chapters)

A lot of us have wondered why Gin and Tousen have sided with Aizen. I put 2 and 2 together, and I think I may have figured it out...

We know Shinigami get old and die. We've seen them age and fall victim to the symptoms of getting old. It doesn't look like hollows age, which makes sense, given what a hollow is in the Bleach world (them dying ruins the balance, so it wouldn't make sense if they could naturally die). On top of that, we know that Arrancar have no age (Lilinette stated that when "fighting" Ukitake). It also appears that Vizards don't age. Of all the kids we saw in TBTP, Hiyori is the only one who is still a child. I used to think that she might be in a gigai or something, but if Arrancar don't have age, then it's possible that Vizards don't either, because they're both hybrid beings. It's possible that the hollow aspect prevents Vizards from aging, and Hiyori appears to be proof of that, unless there's another explanation for her not getting older.

Why does this matter? Bleach 65 page 09 | One Manga

Byakuya says that the only captains afraid of death are Gin and the Squad 9 Captain, Tousen. So maybe that's all there is to it. Aizen said that hollow/shinigami hybrids had existed in theories well before Urahara created the Hougyoku. Perhaps that's what Aizen offered them. He showed them the theoretical research, and explained that becoming a hybrid could free them from the prison of death and old age. There might not be anything grander to it than that.

There is no "path of least blood" yet, because Tousen said that the "path of least blood" is whatever path he chooses... basically, he's going to create it on his own, when he's an immortal judge, defining his own course of justice. I think his righteous indignation makes it possible for him to be that arrogant. And as for Gin... he doesn't seem to care about what Aizen is actually doing, and he doesn't seem dedicated to Aizen's cause (notice, he never once called him "Aizen-sama"). He's clearly in it for something he could personally gain, and I think this could be it.

Sorry for the long post... that's my theory. Thoughts?

[silenceisntgold2]

That actually makes a lot of sense. At first when I read the manga page, I thought that maybe it would be referencing the other captain there, but it was Kenpachi. That ruled that out.

This does seem like a very plausible theory, and with more power(the added hollow powers), they can defend their lives better from what seems to be the only way they would be able to die, in battle. You have to remember that Lillinette is part of Stark though, so I'm not sure whether we should count her as her own being, as Stark seemed to gain some of her spunk when he released, in my opinion anyway.

[Second Cell]

I'm dense explain how Barragan fits into that theory?

[zmtfatzombie]

Yeah. I really wonder why Hyori's still kid.
But if you mean that, Why doesn't Urahara aging too?

And due to your theory, Gin and Tousen are already Vizards. If it is, the battle with Vizards with Aizen will be harder.

[dragonvizard]

Barragan just looks old. But I don't think he is actually old. Maybe it is a side effect for being the controller of death.

Your theory makes alot of sense, but I disagree with the part that vizards do not age. I mean it is true that Hiyori has not shown aging one bit but neither has Shunsui Kyōraku and Jūshirō Ukitake when we saw them in the TBP arc. But we also know that we hardly understand the aging in soul society. Furthermore the other reason why I think the vizards will age eventually is because Ichigo is a vizard as well. And my gut is telling me that he does not want to be 15 for the rest of his life.
But I do believe that the Arrancars don't age. But then again we don't know enough of the aging of Hollows/Arrancars.
I believe that all might have defected to become immortal. But ultimately it was for more power.
Your theory is perfectly sound and makes sense. The only problem is we just don't know enough about Soul Society aging to make any definite conclusions.

[Darth Kenshin]

Originally Posted by silenceisntgold2

You have to remember that Lillinette is part of Stark though, so I'm not sure whether we should count her as her own being, as Stark seemed to gain some of her spunk when he released, in my opinion anyway.

Yeah Lilinette is hard to use as a barometer because she's somewhat unique. But she did say "arrancar have no age," which sounds like she was generalizing. Plus, as I said before, theoretically, it wouldn't make sense for hollows to age. Their death ruins the balance of souls. And as we know, there are many (millions?) hollows in HM that will never be purified, because Shinigami don't go there. If they aged and died, then the entire balance of souls would be irrevocably ruined. They're pretty much in limbo, until they are purified, in which case they would go to SS or hell.

Originally Posted by dragonvizard

Your theory makes alot of sense, but I disagree with the part that vizards do not age. I mean it is true that Hiyori has not shown aging one bit but neither has Shunsui Kyōraku and Jūshirō Ukitake when we saw them in the TBP arc. But we also know that we hardly understand the aging in soul society. Furthermore the other reason why I think the vizards will age eventually is because Ichigo is a vizard as well. And my gut is telling me that he does not want to be 15 for the rest of his life.

Ukitake and Kyoraku didn't age, but they were also adults. The children we saw in TBTP all got older: Byakuya, Akon, Hisagi, and Nanao come to mind, and there may have been others. Hiyori is the only exception from the children. I'm basing this on the assumption that Shinigami age similarly to humans, just over a MUCH longer period of time... as in, they grow quickly when they're younger, and that process slows down once they've matured. That's also just a guess, and overall you're right: we don't definitively know how they age.

As for Ichigo, he's still a human. I assume that when he goes back into his body, his body will age like a normal human's. He's always a difficult case to explain, though, so we can't know that for sure.

[holyken]

true hey...AIzen used his own methods to turn death gods to hollows to test and probably tto Gin and Tousen...the visards dont seem to have aged relative to Yoruichi and Kisuke.....
as Yamagi turns back in memory...he recalls Kyorsku and Ukitake being very young...yah death gods age and die..while hollows like Baragan seem to have been alive for a million years...and dont seem to be dieng anytime soon....Baragan is proof that although Hollows age to a certain extent they is a limit to their aging..Example Nnoitra when he recalls fighting Nel,when he was Espada no-8

[rozarazan]

it is a very good theory ,after all gin doesn't seem to care about aizen as you have pointed out .he seems like he is just want to have fun .

[Maddy---88]

IMO, Shinigami age until a certain point. For example, Yama-Jii hasn't aged from TBTP till now; there is no difference, he is still the fastest captain apart from Soi Fon.

[Mushiro]

Originally Posted by Darth Kenshin

(I made a new thread for this because the "Tousen and Gin" thread is mainly about their powers, not what they're actualy doing... plus, that was in the Discussion section, and this topic will probably end up drawing information from more recent manga chapters)

A lot of us have wondered why Gin and Tousen have sided with Aizen. I put 2 and 2 together, and I think I may have figured it out...

We know Shinigami get old and die. We've seen them age and fall victim to the symptoms of getting old. It doesn't look like hollows age, which makes sense, given what a hollow is in the Bleach world (them dying ruins the balance, so it wouldn't make sense if they could naturally die). On top of that, we know that Arrancar have no age (Lilinette stated that when "fighting" Ukitake). It also appears that Vizards don't age. Of all the kids we saw in TBTP, Hiyori is the only one who is still a child. I used to think that she might be in a gigai or something, but if Arrancar don't have age, then it's possible that Vizards don't either, because they're both hybrid beings. It's possible that the hollow aspect prevents Vizards from aging, and Hiyori appears to be proof of that, unless there's another explanation for her not getting older.

Why does this matter? Bleach 65 page 09 | One Manga

Byakuya says that the only captains afraid of death are Gin and the Squad 9 Captain, Tousen. So maybe that's all there is to it. Aizen said that hollow/shinigami hybrids had existed in theories well before Urahara created the Hougyoku. Perhaps that's what Aizen offered them. He showed them the theoretical research, and explained that becoming a hybrid could free them from the prison of death and old age. There might not be anything grander to it than that.

There is no "path of least blood" yet, because Tousen said that the "path of least blood" is whatever path he chooses... basically, he's going to create it on his own, when he's an immortal judge, defining his own course of justice. I think his righteous indignation makes it possible for him to be that arrogant. And as for Gin... he doesn't seem to care about what Aizen is actually doing, and he doesn't seem dedicated to Aizen's cause (notice, he never once called him "Aizen-sama"). He's clearly in it for something he could personally gain, and I think this could be it.

Sorry for the long post... that's my theory. Thoughts?

Probably one of the best theories of their defection I've heard so far. The evidence is there, no denying. Good catch.